Comments on: Enculturation? http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/ let's activate something Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:38:33 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Amishmen for Bush « Justin Nisly http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/#comment-1646 Amishmen for Bush « Justin Nisly Sun, 20 May 2007 11:42:13 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/#comment-1646 [...] Now this has me very angry, but not for political or even religious reasons: as a demographic, the Amish are unlikely to affect the outcome of many elections, and I personally couldn’t really care less about religious moral values issues. No, my problem here is cultural. T John Yoder expresses it well over at Young Anabaptist Radicals: Right off the bat, this raised one huge question for me: [. . . ] What are the implications for the Mennonite peace stance if over 50% of our voting body is willing to vote for a candidate who has openly declared himself “a war president?” Will we see it erode over the next decades? And if it does, will there be anything keeping us from eventually being subsumed by the greater Christian Right? [...] […] Now this has me very angry, but not for political or even religious reasons: as a demographic, the Amish are unlikely to affect the outcome of many elections, and I personally couldn’t really care less about religious moral values issues. No, my problem here is cultural. T John Yoder expresses it well over at Young Anabaptist Radicals: Right off the bat, this raised one huge question for me: [. . . ] What are the implications for the Mennonite peace stance if over 50% of our voting body is willing to vote for a candidate who has openly declared himself “a war president?” Will we see it erode over the next decades? And if it does, will there be anything keeping us from eventually being subsumed by the greater Christian Right? […]

]]> By: TimN http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/#comment-240 TimN Sun, 10 Dec 2006 22:29:52 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/#comment-240 John, there's a lot of other people who think this voting pattern is a bit odd too. One of the movements that gives me hope is the Post-Christendom movement in United Kingdom that comes out of the <a href="http://www.anabaptistnetwork.com/" rel="nofollow">Anabaptist Network</a> there. They are suggesting that the end of Christendom in the UK is an opportunity for Christians to reverse that acculturation you describe. They've written three books on it as part of a series called After Christendom. If you don't have time to go out and get the books right now, <a href="http://www.postchristendom.com/node/1" rel="nofollow">this page</a>. has a pretty good summary of the three. I think Mennonites in the US could learn a lot from Anabaptists in the UK on this count. And their strengths go beyond a shalom (or peace) centered theology. They suggest that instead of fighting battles to try to preserve Christian symbols back into the center of society (i.e the campaign to get retailers to say Merry Christmas), we should embrace our role on the margins and look to the early church and the Anabaptists as examples. Unfortunately, for many Mennonite churches in the US, besides the obligatory Martyr's Mirror on the shelf, the early Anabaptists are hardly known at all, let alone inspirational. John, there’s a lot of other people who think this voting pattern is a bit odd too. One of the movements that gives me hope is the Post-Christendom movement in United Kingdom that comes out of the Anabaptist Network there. They are suggesting that the end of Christendom in the UK is an opportunity for Christians to reverse that acculturation you describe. They’ve written three books on it as part of a series called After Christendom. If you don’t have time to go out and get the books right now, this page. has a pretty good summary of the three.

I think Mennonites in the US could learn a lot from Anabaptists in the UK on this count. And their strengths go beyond a shalom (or peace) centered theology. They suggest that instead of fighting battles to try to preserve Christian symbols back into the center of society (i.e the campaign to get retailers to say Merry Christmas), we should embrace our role on the margins and look to the early church and the Anabaptists as examples. Unfortunately, for many Mennonite churches in the US, besides the obligatory Martyr’s Mirror on the shelf, the early Anabaptists are hardly known at all, let alone inspirational.

]]> By: Lora http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/#comment-239 Lora Sun, 10 Dec 2006 19:45:42 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/#comment-239 John, you're right. I believe that Saint Augustine (354-430 CE) was the first Christian to articulate a just war theory. Richard B. Hays says that just war theory was "neither derived nor derivable from the New Testament"(The Moral Vision of the New Testament), but rather developed for exactly the reasons you state. As for voting patterns, that gets trickier. I imagine that Mennonites mirror the broader culture in more ways than just voting patterns, but the point is well-made. I would guess that any Christian who votes "pro-life" would say that the desire to protect innocent life figures strongly into that. (The fact that George W. Bush's language resonates so much with evangelical Christians only helps him, or did, anyway; how could be someone who seems so godly be wrong?) It seems like we Mennonites have many loyalties besides (and perhaps before) the Mennonite church... And on that note, it's back to writing papers. John, you’re right. I believe that Saint Augustine (354-430 CE) was the first Christian to articulate a just war theory. Richard B. Hays says that just war theory was “neither derived nor derivable from the New Testament”(The Moral Vision of the New Testament), but rather developed for exactly the reasons you state.

As for voting patterns, that gets trickier. I imagine that Mennonites mirror the broader culture in more ways than just voting patterns, but the point is well-made. I would guess that any Christian who votes “pro-life” would say that the desire to protect innocent life figures strongly into that. (The fact that George W. Bush’s language resonates so much with evangelical Christians only helps him, or did, anyway; how could be someone who seems so godly be wrong?) It seems like we Mennonites have many loyalties besides (and perhaps before) the Mennonite church…

And on that note, it’s back to writing papers.

]]> By: eric http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/#comment-234 eric Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:15:38 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/10/enculturation/#comment-234 overly reactionist? not a chance. for starters you've apologized for nearly everything in your post. :) all i can say about that survey is: wow. so much for the anabaptist difference. Dear World, We know we used to say bad things about you, but we promise we don't mean it - at least not as a group - it' just something we have to say to feel good about ourselves. And those of us who disagree promise to <a href="http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2006/12/08/things-we-dont-say/" rel="nofollow">censor ourselves</a> so no one finds out what we really think. Please let us in. Please let us be one of you. We love you forever. Your good friend, Mennonite overly reactionist? not a chance. for starters you’ve apologized for nearly everything in your post. :)

all i can say about that survey is: wow. so much for the anabaptist difference.

Dear World,
We know we used to say bad things about you, but we promise we don’t mean it - at least not as a group - it’ just something we have to say to feel good about ourselves. And those of us who disagree promise to censor ourselves so no one finds out what we really think. Please let us in. Please let us be one of you. We love you forever.

Your good friend,
Mennonite

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