What I do remember had to do with the patriot act and removing individual rights, using fear propaganda as the excuse, and beginning to crack down based on profiling. I would also mention on my own that Hitler was a devout Christian (of sorts), and had strong American support (even among Mennonites) till surprisingly late. As I understand, Mennonites were impressed with his agricultural policies early on. That’s not meant to drift the conversation, but to point out that EVIL doesn’t get tattooed on anyone’s forehead until quite a bit later in the process.

Carl– I didn’t mean to imply that I believe the U.S. is a Christian nation. I meant it more tongue-in-cheek. What I was hoping to get across is the absurdity of how so many Americans will preach about how the U.S. is “Christian,” but then when you talk about the things Christ actually taught (peacemaking, the dangers of wealth, etc), they get strangely uncomfortable about actually applying those principles in our nation.

Other than that, I certainly agree with you when you say, “But I have to question the identification of the US as a Christian nation, both from the democratic side (what about non-Christians - are they not able to be patriotic Americans?) and from my theological understanding (is it even possible for a state to be Christian? If our allegiance is to Christ, should we even claim loyalty to a state?)”

Eric– You may be right about the Nazi thing. I tend to back away from theories like that for fear of being sidelined (mainstream people are more likely to listen to you if you don’t say things like that), but then again, maybe it is wrong to mince words. After all, I certainly have thought those same things about comparisons with the Nazis.

As for the Christian bit, I was hoping to (cleverly) reference the dollar bill’s “Novus Ordo Seclorum,” but was quickly set straight by Wikipedia. So much for a good idea. Turns out the Freemasons explanation is also considered a conspiracy theory. I guess I’ll defer to Carl on that one.

When it comes to comparing current US policy to that of Nazi Germany - I’ve heard holocaust survivors that I know well and trust talk about the frightening similarities here to early developments in the Third Reich. That’s good enough for me. Why back down from a potentially powerful analogy?

Don’t get me wrong, I sympathize with the general take here. If you really care about the soul of this country, dissent these days is the ONLY kind of patriotism. But I have to question the identification of the US as a Christian nation, both from the democratic side (what about non-Christians - are they not able to be patriotic Americans?) and from my theological understanding (is it even possible for a state to be Christian? If our allegiance is to Christ, should we even claim loyalty to a state?).

Skylark: Free press is definitely key. The US is pretty decent overall with regards to governmental openness - there are places (some European countries) that are better, and plenty that are worse. But though it may often be true on the local level, (increasingly) on the federal level I don’t think it’s true that “if a journalists asks, they give up the documents.”

“Patriotism has no quarrel with robust dissent.” Todd Gitlin, professor, Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, 2006.

“In a democracy, expressing disagreement with the government’s actions does not amount to sedition or insurrection.” Jeff Bingaman, U.S. senator, D-N.M., 2006

It’s been ingrained in me since I was a kid that it was OK to disagree, but I had to be respectful no matter what. My parents—I was homeschooled—even went so far as to instruct me to refer to Mr. President or President Bush (because George Bush Sr. was in office then), never just Bush or “the prez” or anything derogatory.

Part of that stuck. I’m uncomfortable with attacks on a person and painting a person as one-and-the-same as a particular decision s/he made. Now, I do refer to him as Bush these days because it’s journalistic habit to refer to people by their last names.

An idea I find interesting is the right to free speech does not equal a right to be heard. We can say what we want. But that doesn’t mean anybody’s going to listen, or that we won’t experience consequences from society in general for what we say.

As a reporter today, I’m even more committed that the free press is part and parcel of free speech. Praise… somebody… for Sunshine Laws about open government. I cringe when reading about courtroon trials of journalists in countries where there are no public records. As sticky as it can be sometimes here, at least here they generally cough up the documents when the reporter specifically asks for them.

That’s enough of my scattered thoughts. Next?