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	<title>Comments on: Christian Dating</title>
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	<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/</link>
	<description>let's activate something</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: isaac essel</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-25704</link>
		<dc:creator>isaac essel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 10:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-25704</guid>
		<description>i want known how to keep my self before marriage</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i want known how to keep my self before marriage</p>
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		<title>By: More Christ Like</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-19230</link>
		<dc:creator>More Christ Like</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-19230</guid>
		<description>Les McFall has an interesting way to deal with the exception clause in Matthew 19:9. He has written a  43 page paper that reviews the changes in the Greek made by Erasmus that effect the way Matthew 19:9  has been translated. I reviewed McFall's paper at &lt;a href="http://morechristlike.com/except-for- fornication-clause-of-matthew-19-9/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Except For Fornication Clause of Matthew 19:9&lt;/a&gt;.  I would love  to hear some feedback on this position.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Les McFall has an interesting way to deal with the exception clause in Matthew 19:9. He has written a  43 page paper that reviews the changes in the Greek made by Erasmus that effect the way Matthew 19:9  has been translated. I reviewed McFall&#8217;s paper at <a href="http://morechristlike.com/except-for- fornication-clause-of-matthew-19-9/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://morechristlike.com/except-for- fornication-clause-of-matthew-19-9/');" rel="nofollow">Except For Fornication Clause of Matthew 19:9</a>.  I would love  to hear some feedback on this position.</p>
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		<title>By: JUnrau</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1510</link>
		<dc:creator>JUnrau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 12:16:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1510</guid>
		<description>I was remembering that Onion article through the whole post/article too!  Thanks for actually finding the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was remembering that Onion article through the whole post/article too!  Thanks for actually finding the link.</p>
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		<title>By: lukelm</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1501</link>
		<dc:creator>lukelm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 03:52:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1501</guid>
		<description>Oh... I tried hard but could not resist posting the link to this relevant Onion article:  

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39100

Not meant to be taken seriously at all - if you're offended by this Ian rather than laughing along with it please let me know and I'll take it down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh&#8230; I tried hard but could not resist posting the link to this relevant Onion article:  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39100" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39100');" rel="nofollow">http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39100</a></p>
<p>Not meant to be taken seriously at all - if you&#8217;re offended by this Ian rather than laughing along with it please let me know and I&#8217;ll take it down.</p>
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		<title>By: ian</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1500</link>
		<dc:creator>ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 00:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1500</guid>
		<description>Hi Skylark,

I’m more of a numbers type of person...I like to work with numbers.  My writing comes out of a passion to share things that I have learned about the bible, God and life.

You are right about being cautious about studies.  I’m not sure what all the details of the study were.  It was something that a pastor mentioned in his sermon which I thought was interesting.  The reason why this study stood out is that people can get caught in a trap thinking that God sets up these sexual boundaries (or other boundaries) in order to take the fun and enjoyment out of life.  Actually God wants you to live an incredible live and he sets up these boundaries so that we don’t hurt ourselves or other people.  If you want God’s best for your life then you need to do what He says cause he wants us to live life to the fullest (John 10:10).

You are right that there are also other sexual areas that people need to deal with as well.  These could be issues of lust, pornography, masturbation.....

As for my comment  “Every good church wants single people to find the right person to marry.”  I agree with the responses that you guys mentioned about people sometimes being too pushy about dating and marriage.  My reason for saying that was to say that the churches goal isn’t to try and stop people from getting married.  In my article I wanted to first tell singles to focus on their relationship with God and live the single life to the fullest potential in serving God.  But I wanted them to understand that for many of them marriage will happen one day and that is a good thing and that is something that God blesses and the church should bless as well.  Some people don’t want to get married.  Some people enjoy serving God as a single.  That is a good thing to and people should not force everyone to get married. 

A number of people have tried to set me up with people.  At times this can be frustrating for me.  In order to keep my heart right I just think that these people have experienced a lot of joy from their married life and they want the same for me.  It helps me not to get bitter about it.  And in a way, it is nice that others think about me and care that I find a great person to marry someday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Skylark,</p>
<p>I’m more of a numbers type of person&#8230;I like to work with numbers.  My writing comes out of a passion to share things that I have learned about the bible, God and life.</p>
<p>You are right about being cautious about studies.  I’m not sure what all the details of the study were.  It was something that a pastor mentioned in his sermon which I thought was interesting.  The reason why this study stood out is that people can get caught in a trap thinking that God sets up these sexual boundaries (or other boundaries) in order to take the fun and enjoyment out of life.  Actually God wants you to live an incredible live and he sets up these boundaries so that we don’t hurt ourselves or other people.  If you want God’s best for your life then you need to do what He says cause he wants us to live life to the fullest (John 10:10).</p>
<p>You are right that there are also other sexual areas that people need to deal with as well.  These could be issues of lust, pornography, masturbation&#8230;..</p>
<p>As for my comment  “Every good church wants single people to find the right person to marry.”  I agree with the responses that you guys mentioned about people sometimes being too pushy about dating and marriage.  My reason for saying that was to say that the churches goal isn’t to try and stop people from getting married.  In my article I wanted to first tell singles to focus on their relationship with God and live the single life to the fullest potential in serving God.  But I wanted them to understand that for many of them marriage will happen one day and that is a good thing and that is something that God blesses and the church should bless as well.  Some people don’t want to get married.  Some people enjoy serving God as a single.  That is a good thing to and people should not force everyone to get married. </p>
<p>A number of people have tried to set me up with people.  At times this can be frustrating for me.  In order to keep my heart right I just think that these people have experienced a lot of joy from their married life and they want the same for me.  It helps me not to get bitter about it.  And in a way, it is nice that others think about me and care that I find a great person to marry someday.</p>
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		<title>By: TimN</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1484</link>
		<dc:creator>TimN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 21:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1484</guid>
		<description>Skylark and Folknotions,

Thanks for pointing out some of the problems with pressuring single people "to find the right person to marry". Last fall at the Mennonite Young Adult Fellowship gathering, some of the young adults who participated in &lt;a href="http://www.bikemovement.org/usa_vision/index.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;BikeMovement USA&lt;/a&gt;. They reported their experience at one Mennonite Church where the pastor said that the best way of incorporating young adults into the life of the church was to get them married and having children (perhaps some BikeMovement folks who were on the trip can tell the story better). Many of us at the Young adult gathering agreed that this mindset, although not always explicit, is far too common among our churches. 

Young adulthood is not a transitional period to be gotten over as quickly as possible. It is an rich time of opportunity for exploration, action and learning. Young adults have a critical role to play in the transformation and growth of the church, locally and globally. Churches that view young adulthood as simply a prelude to marriage and children are robbing themselves and hurting the health of the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Skylark and Folknotions,</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing out some of the problems with pressuring single people &#8220;to find the right person to marry&#8221;. Last fall at the Mennonite Young Adult Fellowship gathering, some of the young adults who participated in <a href="http://www.bikemovement.org/usa_vision/index.php" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.bikemovement.org/usa_vision/index.php');" rel="nofollow">BikeMovement USA</a>. They reported their experience at one Mennonite Church where the pastor said that the best way of incorporating young adults into the life of the church was to get them married and having children (perhaps some BikeMovement folks who were on the trip can tell the story better). Many of us at the Young adult gathering agreed that this mindset, although not always explicit, is far too common among our churches. </p>
<p>Young adulthood is not a transitional period to be gotten over as quickly as possible. It is an rich time of opportunity for exploration, action and learning. Young adults have a critical role to play in the transformation and growth of the church, locally and globally. Churches that view young adulthood as simply a prelude to marriage and children are robbing themselves and hurting the health of the community.</p>
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		<title>By: folknotions</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1483</link>
		<dc:creator>folknotions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 19:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1483</guid>
		<description>“Every good church wants single people to find the right person to marry.”

Skylark,

I agree whole-heartedly with your assessment of marriage/singleness in the church. I offer the following, in hopes that we recognize that being pushy was not Jesus's call:

Matthew 19:11 and 12 (NIV)

 11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

As well as all of chapter 7 from 1 Corinthians.

Instead of offering support for those who wish to remain single, the church will expect that they will "burn with passion" until they become married. I think assuming the worst of those in the church is pretty depressing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Every good church wants single people to find the right person to marry.”</p>
<p>Skylark,</p>
<p>I agree whole-heartedly with your assessment of marriage/singleness in the church. I offer the following, in hopes that we recognize that being pushy was not Jesus&#8217;s call:</p>
<p>Matthew 19:11 and 12 (NIV)</p>
<p> 11Jesus replied, &#8220;Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.&#8221;</p>
<p>As well as all of chapter 7 from 1 Corinthians.</p>
<p>Instead of offering support for those who wish to remain single, the church will expect that they will &#8220;burn with passion&#8221; until they become married. I think assuming the worst of those in the church is pretty depressing.</p>
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		<title>By: Skylark</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1480</link>
		<dc:creator>Skylark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 16:15:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2007/05/11/christian-dating/#comment-1480</guid>
		<description>Hi Ian, and welcome to YAR. It's good to have you here. Are you mainly a columnist or a researcher? Your post leads me to believe you are a columnist who has heard about a few research projects. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with most of what you said, but I do have to take issue with a couple of statements.

" A study was done on 10,000 women to find out which people have the best sex lives. The study found out that those people with the best sex lives are religious people.  Wow, isn’t that interesting!  Those people who are happiest in their sexual relationships are those people who are closest to God."

Which study? Why only women? How did they define "religious"? Your later statement leads me to believe you think religious=close to God, which it doesn't always mean. By "best sex lives," do you mean these people reported the highest level of satisfaction with their sex lives?

"On the outside their life may portray that they are living exciting lives, but deep inside they feel shame, they feel dirty, they feel used and they are walking around with hurts and wounds they wish they never had."

Every single one of them? How on earth would you know that?

"Do you want a great sex life?  Then do things God’s way and wait until marriage.  When your marriage day comes, you will be so glad that you saved yourself for that day."

All I have to do to have great sex once I'm married is not to have any before then? If I have any self-image problems or sexual hangups, they'll all magically disappear when I take my vows? This isn't what you said, no, but this is the impression I get from many people who say the same thing you did. Maybe some of those "religious people" who supposedly have such great sex lives believe they're "supposed to" have great sex lives after they're married, so to save face, they say their sex lives are better than they are when people ask.

Yes, I believe in sleeping only with my spouse, and I think that's a good way of doing things. But I'm tired of people presenting abstinence-until-marriage-and-monogamy-thereafter as some kind of cure-all for issues people bring into relationships.

"Every good church wants single people to find the right person to marry."

Yeah, and unfortunately, they can be kind of pushy about it, too. People frequently ask me if I'm dating anybody. The jokesters will sometimes add "What's wrong with you, then?" when I say no. I know they're kidding. I can laugh at myself. No big deal. The problem is well-intended people giving the impression there is "something wrong with" people who aren't dating or married. I liked your paragraph about the freedom single people have to work in the kingdom, and our completeness comes from God.

I'm quite familiar with Josh Harris' books. As someone who grew up in the homeschooling community, trust me, I'm well-versed in the "Dating is evil; God wants us to court" discussion. I'm not so hung up on the labels anymore. I don't care whether a person calls their significant other their boyfriend/girlfriend, betrothed, suitor, beau, courter, fiance, whatever. Some of these "courtship people" I think are trying to define their way into being something unique and special. Most of the mature young adults I know are already avoiding the negative tendencies Harris identifies in IKDG. They usually call what they're doing "dating," but that's ultimately irrelevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ian, and welcome to YAR. It&#8217;s good to have you here. Are you mainly a columnist or a researcher? Your post leads me to believe you are a columnist who has heard about a few research projects. Please correct me if I&#8217;m wrong.</p>
<p>I agree with most of what you said, but I do have to take issue with a couple of statements.</p>
<p>&#8221; A study was done on 10,000 women to find out which people have the best sex lives. The study found out that those people with the best sex lives are religious people.  Wow, isn’t that interesting!  Those people who are happiest in their sexual relationships are those people who are closest to God.&#8221;</p>
<p>Which study? Why only women? How did they define &#8220;religious&#8221;? Your later statement leads me to believe you think religious=close to God, which it doesn&#8217;t always mean. By &#8220;best sex lives,&#8221; do you mean these people reported the highest level of satisfaction with their sex lives?</p>
<p>&#8220;On the outside their life may portray that they are living exciting lives, but deep inside they feel shame, they feel dirty, they feel used and they are walking around with hurts and wounds they wish they never had.&#8221;</p>
<p>Every single one of them? How on earth would you know that?</p>
<p>&#8220;Do you want a great sex life?  Then do things God’s way and wait until marriage.  When your marriage day comes, you will be so glad that you saved yourself for that day.&#8221;</p>
<p>All I have to do to have great sex once I&#8217;m married is not to have any before then? If I have any self-image problems or sexual hangups, they&#8217;ll all magically disappear when I take my vows? This isn&#8217;t what you said, no, but this is the impression I get from many people who say the same thing you did. Maybe some of those &#8220;religious people&#8221; who supposedly have such great sex lives believe they&#8217;re &#8220;supposed to&#8221; have great sex lives after they&#8217;re married, so to save face, they say their sex lives are better than they are when people ask.</p>
<p>Yes, I believe in sleeping only with my spouse, and I think that&#8217;s a good way of doing things. But I&#8217;m tired of people presenting abstinence-until-marriage-and-monogamy-thereafter as some kind of cure-all for issues people bring into relationships.</p>
<p>&#8220;Every good church wants single people to find the right person to marry.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, and unfortunately, they can be kind of pushy about it, too. People frequently ask me if I&#8217;m dating anybody. The jokesters will sometimes add &#8220;What&#8217;s wrong with you, then?&#8221; when I say no. I know they&#8217;re kidding. I can laugh at myself. No big deal. The problem is well-intended people giving the impression there is &#8220;something wrong with&#8221; people who aren&#8217;t dating or married. I liked your paragraph about the freedom single people have to work in the kingdom, and our completeness comes from God.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m quite familiar with Josh Harris&#8217; books. As someone who grew up in the homeschooling community, trust me, I&#8217;m well-versed in the &#8220;Dating is evil; God wants us to court&#8221; discussion. I&#8217;m not so hung up on the labels anymore. I don&#8217;t care whether a person calls their significant other their boyfriend/girlfriend, betrothed, suitor, beau, courter, fiance, whatever. Some of these &#8220;courtship people&#8221; I think are trying to define their way into being something unique and special. Most of the mature young adults I know are already avoiding the negative tendencies Harris identifies in IKDG. They usually call what they&#8217;re doing &#8220;dating,&#8221; but that&#8217;s ultimately irrelevant.</p>
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