I’m not sure that’s what Folknotion’s meant, but it is what I mean when I speak of Jesus’ death. Paul himself said that Jesus’ death was a paradigm we were to emulate (Col. 1:14; Romans 8:17)

Steve K

I think you are also right to point out that this critique needs to start with us when us means privilege, middle class folks. This is why for me, the Walter Wink paradigm of Christianity challenging the domination system is key. When I challenge the church, it is because I see us propping up the domination system and participating in it unquestioningly.

Unfortunately in our cynicism, we sometimes end up lumping the entire Church into one bucket and you are right that that’s a problem. We need to remember that many churches (like SteveK’s) are made up of poor people who have found liberation and freedom from bondage in the gospel.

Folknotions, I’m not sure that I agree that the only shared truth and hope we proclaim is Christ’s crucifixion. In 1 Corinthians 2:2, Paul says that he knew “Jesus Christ and him crucified” (NIV). For me, knowing Jesus Christ means knowing his life as well as his death and resurrection. And it is all three of these together that call us out of the domination system and into God’s vision for shalom.

When we see healthy congregations we should acknowledge and support that. Otherwise we can become just a little too cynical.

And I don’t know if black churches love each-other more. Surely one has to take into account the nearly 80% rate of out-of-wedlock childbirth, the associated violence in the inner-city, and so on.

I don’t think one is doing better than the other. It seems our me-first mentality may have finally infected nearly every aspect of church and christianity in this part of the world.

I don’t know how accurate it is to say that suburb dwellers live a “sin-free” lifestyle. Aside from the things you mentioned (which is worse: doing drugs or hating your neighbor?), they’re not even very good at the sexual sins they rail against so often (porn, divorce, etc). They do seem to have learned how to make it less obvious, of course, but that’s not the same thing. At the end of the day, I’d rather have a drug addict who knows how to love sacrificially than an apathetic suburban pastor.

I’m not saying that poverty makes you more righteous, but I just don’t think you can say that suburban Christians are better off spiritually. Black urban churches have a big problem with the prosperity gospel, but at least they’re doing a better job of loving each other. I’d be nice to see orthodoxy and obedience go together, and sometimes it happens, but if I had to pick one, I’d go for obedience.

These comments are in any case typically not made self-righetously nor arrogantly (although we might allow a little once in a while for people that are usually never given leeway for it). I’m not sure how the term ethnocentric would really apply here at all though.

But i agree with Somasoul that the Church is massively off course, but also with folknotions that it is more concertedly bad in the U.S.. But that is kind of what this blog is about isn’t it?

I dunno. On the hand you have the white “moral majority” that fled to the suburbs and lives a pretty good sin-free lifestyle. (Also, it’s a lifestyle of seclusion, lack of service, and consumerism). On the flip side you have urban churches that proclaim the prosperity gospel and have church goers involved in drugs or rampant sexual sin.

Is there a happy medium to this?

“Respect for the other means that I have to be willing to allow myself to be served by those I perceive to be needy.” -Sean F

This is a great quote. So often Christians only preach down. The rich can preach to their class or below it. Whites can preach to either whites or blacks but blacks cannot preach to whites. We need to humble ourselves to be taught by those “less” than us. I’m sure they can bring something to the table.

But two other points:

Many people throughout the world could misunderstand that the wealthy Christian is the status quo Christian because wealthy North American speakers flood the airwaves with their message all over the world, especially those of the prosperity doctrine. They are openly teaching that the faithful Christian is the one who has conspicuous wealth, in opposition to the teaching of Jesus, and in opposition to the majority of Christians. Thus, while we do not want to insult the poor, we need to make sure we speak against this wrong-headed teaching.

Also, I have a whole church of the poor in Portland, and I teach them about what the Bible says about the poor and the rich. And they are surprized. They thought that the rich were more spiritual than they, although James 1 and 2 says the opposite. So teaching about the dangers of wealth and living out an incarnation to the poor is just a part of the whole gospel, which is so much more than just “receiving Jesus.”

Steve K

It seems to me there’s something even more insidious going on here as well, though. As a member of a privileged group, it’s easy to get an us/them mentality that separates me from the “poor” or the “needy”. I’m a good Christian who has resources that I should use to serve the poor, but if I stop here, I may actually do more damage to the Body than if I hadn’t done anything at all. If there’s anything I’ve learned in the last couple of years, it’s that we have a hell of a lot to learn from the so-called “needy”, and we’d better get over ourselves and start paying attention. Respect for the other means that I have to be willing to allow myself to be served by those I perceive to be needy.

I think this is a part of the broader problem that you were addressing. When we only see things from our own perspective, we lose sight of reality. I’ve been blown away by Christians in other countries who have told me “I pray for you American Christians every day, because it must be so hard to be American and Christian.” If we don’t have fellowship with those who live in different situations and have different points of view, we can’t help but be ethnocentric and arrogant in our outlook.