Young Anabaptist Radicals

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Disobeying when it doesn’t matter morally

7 Responses to “Disobeying when it doesn’t matter morally”

1. John Moore Says:
   

   January 24th, 2008 at 6:50 pm

   I think that where submitting to the authority of law meets not letting unjust laws dictate our actions is in nonviolent civil disobedience. We must ask ourselves if the law is morally repugnant. If it is, we must ask ourselves if we are seeking a personal advantage. If not we must ask ourselves if we are ready to go to jail. We can, and indeed must, disobey unjust laws, but we must submit to–not evade–punishment. This ensures that we do not become a law unto ourselves. Remaining nonviolent ensures that if we are wrong we won’t hurt anyone but ourselves.

2. SteveK Says:
   

   January 24th, 2008 at 7:17 pm

   Jesus submitted to the law, even when it hurt himself. The law was unjust, but he let injustice be done to him. The point of this, BTW, is not just to be submissive, but to allow the justice of God to set aside or to punish the unjust authority.

   If we are followers of Jesus, we also accept the unjust punishments of authorities. However, if they command us to do injustice– to harm another, or allow another to be harmed by our inaction– then we are to disobey, even as Jesus also did. Then, if the authorities wish to punish us for doing what is right, we accept it, calling on God to judge between they and us.

   If an non-follower of Jesus disobeys the authorities and suffers for it, we still help them because even as the government is the arm of judgment, we, the people of Jesus, are the arm of mercy.

   Steve K

3. SteveK Says:
   

   January 24th, 2008 at 7:23 pm

   Let me re phrase. You wanted to talk about an issue that “didn’t matter” morally and then you spoke of undocumeted workers, which DOES matter morally. So… I guess I got confused.

   What about using a different example– the seat belt law, for example. Most states have them. They restrict one’s personal freedom for the sake of statistically saving some lives (which it does). Should we take the obedience to this as God’s law?

   My opinion is that we should do what we can to obey. If we do not, we should willingly pay the price, as, let’s say, a tax (which we are commanded to pay in Rom 13). I don’t consider it a sin if I forget to wear my seat belt. But if I get caught, then I deserve what I get. However, the authorities in my state give much firmer penalties if I fail to have my children wear seat belts, and that makes sense, for I’m taking chances with my children’s lives. This IS a moral issue, in which the state is probably right. Thus, to ignore the state in this, I think, WOULD be a sin before God.

   I hope I’m clear, here…

   Steve K

4. somasoul Says:
   

   January 24th, 2008 at 8:52 pm

   Jesus obeyed laws because he understood that by doing so he could concentrate on fulfilling his mission.

   As Christians we should obey laws, even stupid laws like seat belt laws, because it frees us from worrying about anything other than preaching the gospel.

5. David Engel Says:
   

   January 25th, 2008 at 10:15 am

   I guess I should admit that I always find it funny when I see / hear Christians talk about all the moral issues that need correcting and they don’t obey speed limits, which are at least in part responsible for protecting peoples’ lives. Didn’t Jesus talk about what is a person’s heart, whether or not they followed the letter of the law?

   Now, I do believe there are a lot of laws that need to be changed or just plain dropped. I am in favor of government not intruding in areas that I - personally - feel they have no business, but I understand that changes in this world need to be made within the constrains of the government, so a person can be against speed limits, but to me, they should not break the law, even in protest, and then say, “well, I took the consequences.” I think that’s what persuasion is for, or in the case of a lot of amoral issues, if it is truly something a person has conviction over, they could leave.

6. TimN Says:
   

   January 25th, 2008 at 3:36 pm

   SteveK and Somasoul,

   I’m surprised that you claim that Jesus obeyed all laws. The gospels are full of examples of Jesus disobeying unjust laws, such as the Sabbath rules instituted by the Saducees and Pharisees.

   This liturgical reading put together by Ched Myers lays out some of the acts of “divine obedience” that Jesus carried out during his ministry:

   The Bible and Civil Disobedience / Divine Obedience – Part 2 of 3

   Jesus certainly accepted the consequences of his disobedience, from his rebuke of Peter in the Garden of Gethsemane to dying on the cross. Yet even in the resurrection he defied the ultimate law and tool of control that the Roman and Jewish authorities had: death.

7. SteveK Says:
   

   January 27th, 2008 at 4:07 pm

   I didn’t say that Jesus obeyed all laws. I said he submitted himself to them.

   He flouted authority when it disobeyed the greater law, “Love your neighbor as yourself”. But he always took on the punishment himself, if the authority felt that he had done something illegal.

   Jesus was clear that there were lesser laws and greater laws. Lesser laws were those like the sabbath and cult laws and tithing. Greater laws were that of mercy and justice. Jesus never preached disobedience to the lesser laws. But he did teach that they were marginalized in light of the greater laws. Thus, no interpretation of any lesser law could stand in the way of an obvious interpretation of “love your neighbor as yourself.”

   So I think, Tim, that you and I are in agreement, here.

   Steve K

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