(calming myself…breath deep, Mark…ok…nice and easy)

There is certainly a high level of buzz about stuff out there. And sure, Emergent in particular has been known to get people’s attention through controversy and packaging.

But you’d be downright silly to think that was all there is to it. And at the risk of sounding rude, if you think that is all there is too it you are simply missing it.

What is Submergent? Do we exist because of buzz? Right now we are a group of people trying to network based upon shared convictions. Shared convictions that the Anabaptists know something important, and if they are to have a prophetic voice in our culture, we need to re-engage culture in creative ways. Not compromise to culture. Not simply whore our legacy away in order to be trendy. We need to get a fresh breath of what Anabaptism is all about and breath it into our culture.

Here’s the thing. USA is as powerful as ever. The world is filled with conflict. The church is fat, stupid, and happy. We are lulled to sleep with consumerism. We exploit the world through global capitalist systems, and the provocative, powerful message of Jesus and his nonviolent revolution has been domesticated. Submergent is a growing group of leaders that realizes that the Anabaptist tradition can speak to this sad state of affairs. And we realize that to speak boldly, we need to shed those things that have stiffled our voice as we re-engage our society with prophetic words and actions. (stepping off of my soap box)

What a growing, strange family of mutts we all are…

You’re from Reba Place? Do you know the McKinney’s? They used to Pastor there. They live like a mile from me and went to my church until they were called to pastor elsewhere.

In other news…………I see an urgent……..uh, urge to change the church. I just hope that as we do so we don’t lose focus of Jesus and shape Christianity toward our own social norms.

If you have any interest, you can visit us at:

http://readingforchange.wordpress.com

I have the distinction of coming to the “emergent” party through the back door, and apparently late (as usual). In looking over some things at The Ooze website last year, I tried to see if there were any emergent churches listed for Chicago’s north side or North Shore. Much to my amazement, my own church was listed! (Reba Place [Mennonite], in Evanston… a congregation now in its 51st year) Who knew?!

All this to say: the emergent movement itself– definitions and evaluations of that movement, claims of who’s in or who’s out– all this is proving as slippery as the postmodern ideas themselves. The theological content and day-to-day practices that emergent churches grapple with are all about that TENSION… between past and present, between denominational identity and local individuality, between the world’s iconography (dreadlocks, rockin’ guitars, political action, etc) and the church’s own culture. Tension = imagination. We’re building hybrid churches that recombine the best from all of these older traditions, and then inventing new traditions to go alongside them.

Some one finally cited freakin’ Guns N’ Roses in a theological conversation! LOL! I’m a fanatic from way back …

*still waiting for Chinese Democracy.

Carry on with the regularly scheduled conversation.

Thus Guns N’ Roses’ November Rain still rocks and no one remembers a single White Snake song.

Some things transcend time and space.

What I think the emergent church does really well is balance historical church practices with the 21st century.

Don’t get me wrong - I have my criticisms, and I don’t think that the emergent church is perfect, but I think that they have a lot to offer many current strands of Christianity, and especially Western Christianity.

This isn’t to say that I think other denominations or ways of “doing Christianity” are better or that they are worse.

Christians are best when they are daring. But let’s not throw out 2,000 years of history in one fell swoop here. Let’s not re-think everything according to our own cultural perspectives. We have lots of history to rely on and many great leaders (and failures) to learn from.

Some would simply say we’re not emerging. But here’s the deal. I coordinate the Twin Cities Emergent cohort, go to emergent type stuff and connect with emerging people on the web because, whether they’re doing it right or not, they’re way more open to change and rethinking stuff than almost any group. And the problem with Anabaptists is (speaking as a newly minted Mennonite pastor) that they tend to be willing to change in all the wrong ways. You’ve lost your prophetic edge.

When Anabaptists care more about their ethnic identity than they do about peacemaking or speaking prophetically, then something needs to change. And that change isn’t to become seeker sensitive. And it isn’t to become “hipper” either. It is to re-embrace the Anabaptist core and raise One Voice in the emerging Post-Christian America.

…stepping down off my soap-box.

Wrong. There are some emergent churches that are not connected. Many, if not most, emergent churches are connected to a denomination.

lots of people within the movement have very different opinions.

This is true to an extent. But I say, So what? I think that is really what is driving the emergent movement. It has a diverse group of people involved with diverse perspectives, and casts a very wide net.

I don’t see something like that succeeding.

I am not sure what you mean by succeed. How would you define this success? The emergent movement is not a denomination.

They are a diverse group of people trying to reexamine our ecclesiology.

Also, the emergent movement seems to have an emphasis on hip and, as Mark put it, “trendier”. Trends come and go

I disagree. I think that this is a characteristic of a bad emergent church. I don’t think that the emergent movement emphasizes hip and trendy church.

I understand the cynicism…I’ve lived it, I’ve watched my friends live it. Frustrations and pain caused by “failed” church experiences are among the deeper wounds a soul can bare because they attack our ability to trust and have faith…and we all carry these wounds.

That said, I find hope in the work I do…a lot of hope. Hope that, while I know we won’t get it completely right, we will get closer. What more can you ask of yourself and the people of faith you are in communion with?

I think what Mark and others were trying to tell you in their comments is to not over-generalize. There are communities of faith out there, that would identify with other emergent style churches, who are getting closer to living out the kingdom of God. They are not so concerned about attracting a certain group of people, styles of music, church buildings, and what to wear. They are concerned with how what they say they believe effects how they act as an individual and a community of faith.

However, one failed attempt does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bath water. It does, however mean we should look at the failure with honesty and seek to learn, grow and change out of that experience.

You and Mark are right, there is an essence of trend about the emergent movement but there is also the capability to leave a lasting effect on North American expressions of faith. After all, jeans were invented a century or two ago…and we still wear them.

My church wasn’t “crappy”, it just failed. The emergent movement is not connected at all, without leadership, and lots of people within the movement have very different opinions. I don’t see something like that succeeding.

Also, the emergent movement seems to have an emphasis on hip and, as Mark put it, “trendier”. Trends come and go. Styles, jeans, hats; these things will exist temporarily. The emergent movement has a big focus on those things so I don’t see it as way to get back to Jesus.

I for one am excited about about all of this. Thanks to each of you for putting it all together.

Blessings!

This isn’t about finding hope in the emerging movement. It is about Anabaptists letting go of some of the things that have kept them from greater faithfulness and emerging Christians to do likewise…by learning from each other.

I was “saved” in a non-denominational church at 19. Once saved the church offered me little. No groups for college aged “kids” and folks my age were barred from youth events. I was told to be a part of an adult type group which I felt was too old for me.

From there I found an emergent church. We met in a movie theater. It was full of people my age. And although it didn’t have a program or ministry for people my age it didn’t need to, all programs were designed for those in my age bracket.

But eventually I began to see that the church was exactly like the church I had left. It had cliques, just like the old church. The cliques were younger and hipper but otherwise identical. It had plenty of “programs” for the young, none for the old. It had new music, fresh music, but no tradition.

The emergent church, in my understanding, was a lot like every other church. It sought the same ends. Preached the same things. And had plenty of focus on “hip, young, and cool”……American Consumerist ideology; not the teachings of our Christ.

I don’t know that Christians should place any hope in the emergent movement to be a driving force to get us change within Christianity.