Comments on: Inauguration Thoughts: The State is Still the State http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/ let's activate something Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:08:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: 100 Days Campaign « Adventist Activism http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-21102 100 Days Campaign « Adventist Activism Thu, 07 May 2009 02:02:16 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-21102 [...] I wasn’t able to get a sign to hold until we arrived in the park for speeches from representatives of Amnesty International (blog), the ACLU, TASSC and other organizations. Speeches highlighted positive steps taken by the Obama administration and also called for more swift follow-through on early promises. Though said in different words, we were reminded that the state is still the state. [...] […] I wasn’t able to get a sign to hold until we arrived in the park for speeches from representatives of Amnesty International (blog), the ACLU, TASSC and other organizations. Speeches highlighted positive steps taken by the Obama administration and also called for more swift follow-through on early promises. Though said in different words, we were reminded that the state is still the state. […]

]]> By: Eric http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-20328 Eric Sat, 28 Feb 2009 00:23:05 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-20328 It is unfortunate that when north american anabaptists vote in presidential elections they are voting for a new commander in chief. They are, in effect, encouraging the use of violence while at the same time preaching peace. What do north american anabaptists expect when they vote -peace? It is unfortunate that when north american anabaptists vote in presidential elections they are voting for a new commander in chief. They are, in effect, encouraging the use of violence while at the same time preaching peace. What do north american anabaptists expect when they vote -peace?

]]> By: Josiah Garber http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-20177 Josiah Garber Sat, 14 Feb 2009 18:35:35 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-20177 Thank for this post. Just as many Christian Conservatives were conned by Bush, So too will many be conned by the Obama administration. I am glad to see your healthy skepticism of Obama. I also very much appreciate that you have shown that our allegiance is ultimately to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and to live out the life he modeled for us. Let's never forget that. Thank for this post. Just as many Christian Conservatives were conned by Bush, So too will many be conned by the Obama administration.

I am glad to see your healthy skepticism of Obama.

I also very much appreciate that you have shown that our allegiance is ultimately to our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and to live out the life he modeled for us. Let’s never forget that.

]]> By: Joel Nofziger http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19970 Joel Nofziger Sun, 01 Feb 2009 15:16:36 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19970 It's great to see some of these sentiments discussed. I was feeling mildly optimistic with a healthy dose of skepticism on Inauguration Day for many of the reasons stated here. It’s great to see some of these sentiments discussed. I was feeling mildly optimistic with a healthy dose of skepticism on Inauguration Day for many of the reasons stated here.

]]> By: DavidC http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19873 DavidC Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:20:44 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19873 Yes, well said, John. While we might acknowledge that "the state is still the state" and will always be the state until God's kingdom is fully consumated, we can and should still rejoice when the state acts more justly and respond when the state acts unjustly. Moreover, we should always treat state officials (e.g., President Obama) first and foremost as individual persons and thus witness to Christ's gospel of peace on a personal basis when possible. I hope none of this contradicts my original post, but if and where it does, please disregard those original comments. Yes, well said, John. While we might acknowledge that “the state is still the state” and will always be the state until God’s kingdom is fully consumated, we can and should still rejoice when the state acts more justly and respond when the state acts unjustly. Moreover, we should always treat state officials (e.g., President Obama) first and foremost as individual persons and thus witness to Christ’s gospel of peace on a personal basis when possible. I hope none of this contradicts my original post, but if and where it does, please disregard those original comments.

]]> By: carl http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19872 carl Tue, 27 Jan 2009 18:14:55 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19872 Thank you, John. Well said. Thank you, John. Well said.

]]> By: John Stoner http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19865 John Stoner Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:06:36 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19865 Sorry about that..."WALK and chew gum." I did say that perfection eludes us, didn't I? Sorry about that…”WALK and chew gum.” I did say that perfection eludes us, didn’t I?

]]> By: John Stoner http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19864 John Stoner Tue, 27 Jan 2009 03:05:04 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19864 Neither starry-eyed nor "meet my new boss, same as the old boss" is good enough. Either is too easy. Got to be both and know both at the same time...you know, eat and chew gum at the same time?! You only have to be African American in this country to know for sure that the new boss is not the old boss--and some others of us too, can see that. And you only have to be alive to say that hope springs eternal--because it should, and does. So we've got to be realistic in our expectations of this guy, keeping it clear that the standard is way beyond anything which he has articulated. He is not going to measure up to the standard. But we should be idealistic too, and push him and you and me and the body politic (or body of Christ, whatever you want to say) to come closer to the standard than we or they or he would come without the choice and the effort to do so. Perfection indeed eludes us. But the differences we can make make a difference, and copouts of perfectionism are still copouts. Who is to say by what process the nations are healed (Rev. 22)? But we can say with some confidence that it will be by the power of love, forgiveness and nonviolence. To believe that implies a radical critique of Obama's suicidal rhetoric about Afghanistan at the same time it implies an encouragement of his rhetoric that our power does not entitle us to do as we please. We need to keep saying these things to him, and to others. Neither starry-eyed nor “meet my new boss, same as the old boss” is good enough. Either is too easy. Got to be both and know both at the same time…you know, eat and chew gum at the same time?!
You only have to be African American in this country to know for sure that the new boss is not the old boss–and some others of us too, can see that. And you only have to be alive to say that hope springs eternal–because it should, and does.
So we’ve got to be realistic in our expectations of this guy, keeping it clear that the standard is way beyond anything which he has articulated. He is not going to measure up to the standard. But we should be idealistic too, and push him and you and me and the body politic (or body of Christ, whatever you want to say) to come closer to the standard than we or they or he would come without the choice and the effort to do so.
Perfection indeed eludes us. But the differences we can make make a difference, and copouts of perfectionism are still copouts. Who is to say by what process the nations are healed (Rev. 22)? But we can say with some confidence that it will be by the power of love, forgiveness and nonviolence. To believe that implies a radical critique of Obama’s suicidal rhetoric about Afghanistan at the same time it implies an encouragement of his rhetoric that our power does not entitle us to do as we please. We need to keep saying these things to him, and to others.

]]> By: virginia http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19860 virginia Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:06:15 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19860 While i read this post, I clinched my fists at the thought that we have to be reminded that "The State is Still the State" I for one recongize that with a clear mind, and rejoiced in tears the inaguration of President Obama. While i read this post, I clinched my fists at the thought that we have to be reminded that “The State is Still the State”

I for one recongize that with a clear mind, and rejoiced in tears the inaguration of President Obama.

]]> By: Tim Baer http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19855 Tim Baer Mon, 26 Jan 2009 17:11:40 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19855 SteveK, Will you marry me? -Tim : ) SteveK,

Will you marry me?

-Tim

: )

]]> By: SteveK http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19852 SteveK Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:11:16 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19852 Thanks so much, David! That has been exactly my opinion as well, although this opinion has got me in trouble with some of my starry-eyed friends. In the immortal words of the Who: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss." Thanks so much, David! That has been exactly my opinion as well, although this opinion has got me in trouble with some of my starry-eyed friends.

In the immortal words of the Who: “Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.”

]]> By: Michael Wiebe-Johnson http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19840 Michael Wiebe-Johnson Sat, 24 Jan 2009 04:22:57 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19840 Excellent post! Its so true that it is easy to accept and approve of the state with its new veneer of morality. But I was so disappointed when I heard the America rhetoric come out all over again from Obamas mouth. We are called to keep God´s Kingdom, one of joy, equality, peace, and love, first in our minds. Thanks for reminding us. Excellent post! Its so true that it is easy to accept and approve of the state with its new veneer of morality. But I was so disappointed when I heard the America rhetoric come out all over again from Obamas mouth. We are called to keep God´s Kingdom, one of joy, equality, peace, and love, first in our minds. Thanks for reminding us.

]]> By: DavidC http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19823 DavidC Thu, 22 Jan 2009 15:05:32 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19823 Precisely. He spoke prophetic truth to those in power. Agreed. Precisely. He spoke prophetic truth to those in power. Agreed.

]]> By: Tim Baer http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19822 Tim Baer Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:47:55 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19822 Herod didn't kill John because John disagreed with Herod's economic policies. Herod killed John because John exposed Herod's sin life. Herod didn’t kill John because John disagreed with Herod’s economic policies. Herod killed John because John exposed Herod’s sin life.

]]> By: DavidC http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19820 DavidC Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:31:18 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19820 Tim, It doesn't have to be an either/or. Yes, John the Baptist's message was "Prepare the way for the Lord," but consider also why he was arrested and later beheaded. Moreover, I'm not really speaking "against" the state as much as I'm reminding Christians to keep it in its proper place in their hearts and minds. Thus my conclusion: "the state is still the state. And we are still called to be the church." Tim,

It doesn’t have to be an either/or. Yes, John the Baptist’s message was “Prepare the way for the Lord,” but consider also why he was arrested and later beheaded. Moreover, I’m not really speaking “against” the state as much as I’m reminding Christians to keep it in its proper place in their hearts and minds. Thus my conclusion: “the state is still the state. And we are still called to be the church.”

]]> By: jason j http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19815 jason j Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:58:15 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19815 fair enough Tim.. since much of the policies of the state are in opposition to the Kingdom of God, its easy for my default mode to be get stuck on "against the state" :) fair enough Tim.. since much of the policies of the state are in opposition to the Kingdom of God, its easy for my default mode to be get stuck on “against the state” :)

]]> By: Tim Baer http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19812 Tim Baer Wed, 21 Jan 2009 21:35:44 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19812 We don't need a voice against the state. We need a voice calling people toward God. "He is a voice calling out in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way for the Lord!'" We don’t need a voice against the state. We need a voice calling people toward God.

“He is a voice calling out in the wilderness: ‘Prepare the way for the Lord!’”

]]> By: jason j http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/01/21/inauguration-thoughts-the-state-is-still-the-state/#comment-19809 jason j Wed, 21 Jan 2009 19:41:05 +0000 http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=604#comment-19809 Great post! Seriously, I could not agree more.. As great as Obama seems, he is still committed to the use of force to maintain the American Empire and any locals that don't like us having military bases in their country (the nerve!) will still be called terrorists and will be dispatched with as such.. Obama doesn't seem to have a problem with use of military force either.. Sure he wants to get us out of Iraq, but we wants to focus our energy more on Afghanistan, so its a push.. So we need to be sure to maintain our prophetic voice against the state, even if it has a newer and friendlier face. Great post! Seriously, I could not agree more.. As great as Obama seems, he is still committed to the use of force to maintain the American Empire and any locals that don’t like us having military bases in their country (the nerve!) will still be called terrorists and will be dispatched with as such.. Obama doesn’t seem to have a problem with use of military force either.. Sure he wants to get us out of Iraq, but we wants to focus our energy more on Afghanistan, so its a push..

So we need to be sure to maintain our prophetic voice against the state, even if it has a newer and friendlier face.

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