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	<title>Comments on: Recession Revolution</title>
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	<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/17/recession-revolution/</link>
	<description>let's activate something</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 21:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Donny</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/17/recession-revolution/#comment-213212</link>
		<dc:creator>Donny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Oct 2011 18:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=618#comment-213212</guid>
		<description>We the people are tired of being oppressed by the rich and powerful. We as a people carry the economic status of America upon our backs. While the rich and well off only watch from afar. It is time for a change. All men are supposed to be created equal. All people should be taxed, when there remains a class of people who stands outside of any standards or rules that are set, shows unfairness. The king's law died long ago, but the wealthy seemed to resurrect it somehow</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We the people are tired of being oppressed by the rich and powerful. We as a people carry the economic status of America upon our backs. While the rich and well off only watch from afar. It is time for a change. All men are supposed to be created equal. All people should be taxed, when there remains a class of people who stands outside of any standards or rules that are set, shows unfairness. The king&#8217;s law died long ago, but the wealthy seemed to resurrect it somehow</p>
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		<title>By: SteveK</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/17/recession-revolution/#comment-20575</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 04:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=618#comment-20575</guid>
		<description>Here is a reply from Matt Friesen, the author of the original quoted paragraph:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think the church needs to see its role on at least 3 levels (I'm sure I could come up with more, but 3 will do for now)...


a) Charity, ambulances and band-aids (something the church is traditionally pretty good at - in part because it makes us feel good about ourselves and requires very little personal commitment)  


b) Alternative community.  I sense that as our economic system continues to twist and reel and possibly break in some very significant ways, people will need alternative imaginations and concrete examples of how to care for each other and get through some very difficult days.  I think Steve hits the nail on the head here and am wondering what all sorts of alternative communities people have pursued over the years and how these might inform our time and age.  I lean toward thinking that there is not one "right" way but rather a variety of possible alternatives that grow out of mutual commitment and respond flexibly to their contexts.


c) I think the church really needs to get off its ass and re-engage society in a powerful, meaningful and public way (can I say that online?)  Like I shared before, I'm still not sure what to do with my hearty Anabaptist quiet-in-the-land political-hesitations, but besides the "normal" amount of poverty and homelessness that we're (yes, I'm including myself in this) generally willing to accept in the "best" of times, this crisis is and will continue to hurt and kill millions.  I'd say that this is a great time for the church to (dare I say it?) ask "is our current economic system fair, just, or compassionate?"  Who will have the courage to say that the emperor has no clothes?  That in the last 6-months evil has unmasked itself?  That the US economic system (capitalism on steroids) is designed to make the wealthy colossally more wealthy at the cost of everyone else?  I recall the that when the Iraq war began, those of us who opposed it were told to "shut up and shut up publicly" in support of our soldiers and nation.  Today, I think we need to resist the same cultural gag-order pressuring us to not ask questions about the essential structure of our economy.  What would happen if the church stood up and said, "Our economic model is sinful.  It takes from the poor and gives to the rich.  It is time to repent, come together and create something new."  I seem to recall a black pastor some years ago who understood this about his world, helped gather together others who were equally as embarrassed and angry and made a difference.


If there ever was a time for the church to reclaim a tiny bit of the moral ground it has lost by quiescently accepting the reign of neoliberalism, empire and injustice, perhaps once again become a community of hope and healing and maybe even regain some of its self-respect in the eyes of those who have written it off, it is now.


Peace, Prayers and much Appreciation for your replies,&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Matt F.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a reply from Matt Friesen, the author of the original quoted paragraph:</p>
<blockquote><p>I think the church needs to see its role on at least 3 levels (I&#8217;m sure I could come up with more, but 3 will do for now)&#8230;</p>
<p>a) Charity, ambulances and band-aids (something the church is traditionally pretty good at - in part because it makes us feel good about ourselves and requires very little personal commitment)  </p>
<p>b) Alternative community.  I sense that as our economic system continues to twist and reel and possibly break in some very significant ways, people will need alternative imaginations and concrete examples of how to care for each other and get through some very difficult days.  I think Steve hits the nail on the head here and am wondering what all sorts of alternative communities people have pursued over the years and how these might inform our time and age.  I lean toward thinking that there is not one &#8220;right&#8221; way but rather a variety of possible alternatives that grow out of mutual commitment and respond flexibly to their contexts.</p>
<p>c) I think the church really needs to get off its ass and re-engage society in a powerful, meaningful and public way (can I say that online?)  Like I shared before, I&#8217;m still not sure what to do with my hearty Anabaptist quiet-in-the-land political-hesitations, but besides the &#8220;normal&#8221; amount of poverty and homelessness that we&#8217;re (yes, I&#8217;m including myself in this) generally willing to accept in the &#8220;best&#8221; of times, this crisis is and will continue to hurt and kill millions.  I&#8217;d say that this is a great time for the church to (dare I say it?) ask &#8220;is our current economic system fair, just, or compassionate?&#8221;  Who will have the courage to say that the emperor has no clothes?  That in the last 6-months evil has unmasked itself?  That the US economic system (capitalism on steroids) is designed to make the wealthy colossally more wealthy at the cost of everyone else?  I recall the that when the Iraq war began, those of us who opposed it were told to &#8220;shut up and shut up publicly&#8221; in support of our soldiers and nation.  Today, I think we need to resist the same cultural gag-order pressuring us to not ask questions about the essential structure of our economy.  What would happen if the church stood up and said, &#8220;Our economic model is sinful.  It takes from the poor and gives to the rich.  It is time to repent, come together and create something new.&#8221;  I seem to recall a black pastor some years ago who understood this about his world, helped gather together others who were equally as embarrassed and angry and made a difference.</p>
<p>If there ever was a time for the church to reclaim a tiny bit of the moral ground it has lost by quiescently accepting the reign of neoliberalism, empire and injustice, perhaps once again become a community of hope and healing and maybe even regain some of its self-respect in the eyes of those who have written it off, it is now.</p>
<p>Peace, Prayers and much Appreciation for your replies,</p></blockquote>
<p>Matt F.</p>
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		<title>By: Josiah Garber</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/17/recession-revolution/#comment-20570</link>
		<dc:creator>Josiah Garber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 00:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=618#comment-20570</guid>
		<description>Looking forward to that day when our Saviour returns to this earth.  Things are gonna be shaken up again.  In a BIG way. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking forward to that day when our Saviour returns to this earth.  Things are gonna be shaken up again.  In a BIG way. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Wiebe-Johnson</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/17/recession-revolution/#comment-20557</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Wiebe-Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 22:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=618#comment-20557</guid>
		<description>I agree, with both of you. Matt- we will always have people who worship money, and that is sickening especially when they are among us or we find it in ourselves. Steve -  Investing in community with whatever we have is investing in God´s kingdom. When we do that work, all we need to do is trust that we will be provided for. Consider the lilies :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree, with both of you. Matt- we will always have people who worship money, and that is sickening especially when they are among us or we find it in ourselves. Steve -  Investing in community with whatever we have is investing in God´s kingdom. When we do that work, all we need to do is trust that we will be provided for. Consider the lilies :)</p>
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		<title>By: gyakusetsu</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/17/recession-revolution/#comment-20549</link>
		<dc:creator>gyakusetsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 20:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=618#comment-20549</guid>
		<description>One thing our church has been struggling with is being a geographically-dispersed community.

We have a "Swap &#38; Shop" board at church, where people can make postings about services, products, rides, freebies, etc.

I have been encouraging people to use this much more frequently as a means of people meeting each others' economic needs within the community, as an addition to the normal venues of small groups, etc.

Naturally, more personal interaction tends to work better, but techniques such as this can help to expand the reach of where we can help one another, even if we are geographically or socially farther apart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing our church has been struggling with is being a geographically-dispersed community.</p>
<p>We have a &#8220;Swap &amp; Shop&#8221; board at church, where people can make postings about services, products, rides, freebies, etc.</p>
<p>I have been encouraging people to use this much more frequently as a means of people meeting each others&#8217; economic needs within the community, as an addition to the normal venues of small groups, etc.</p>
<p>Naturally, more personal interaction tends to work better, but techniques such as this can help to expand the reach of where we can help one another, even if we are geographically or socially farther apart.</p>
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		<title>By: gyakusetsu</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/17/recession-revolution/#comment-20544</link>
		<dc:creator>gyakusetsu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=618#comment-20544</guid>
		<description>This is a reply to the quoted text, not the poster. 

We must remember that every government action that imposes a new restriction or requirement--or which requires or takes more funding--is backed by threat of theft, violence, imprisonment, and ultimately death.

Before advocating any new restriction, requirement, tax, or funded program, one should be ask the following question: "is this important enough that people who disagree with it should be shot and killed?"

I believe the pacifist ought usually (if not always) answer "no."

The Good Samaritan didn't go to town and start demanding people's money at gunpoint, in order start a fund that would put a (small) portion of its money back towards a program that might help people. Rather, he personally, ethically, humanly helped someone.

If there is something that you want peacefully changed: go do it. If you can't do it alone, solicit _voluntary_ help from friends, business associates, community, family, and the church. Please don't ask someone with a gun to make people do it on your behalf.

Now, if you want to engage in politics to REMOVE a restriction, REMOVE a tax, REMOVE a program, REMOVE power from the Sword, then do as the Spirit and your conscience moves you.

But, be warned, of course, that those who are in charge of making, interpreting, and enforcing the laws are those that benefit the most by them. Employees of the Sword should not be expected to give up the power that they have worked so hard to attain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a reply to the quoted text, not the poster. </p>
<p>We must remember that every government action that imposes a new restriction or requirement&#8211;or which requires or takes more funding&#8211;is backed by threat of theft, violence, imprisonment, and ultimately death.</p>
<p>Before advocating any new restriction, requirement, tax, or funded program, one should be ask the following question: &#8220;is this important enough that people who disagree with it should be shot and killed?&#8221;</p>
<p>I believe the pacifist ought usually (if not always) answer &#8220;no.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Good Samaritan didn&#8217;t go to town and start demanding people&#8217;s money at gunpoint, in order start a fund that would put a (small) portion of its money back towards a program that might help people. Rather, he personally, ethically, humanly helped someone.</p>
<p>If there is something that you want peacefully changed: go do it. If you can&#8217;t do it alone, solicit _voluntary_ help from friends, business associates, community, family, and the church. Please don&#8217;t ask someone with a gun to make people do it on your behalf.</p>
<p>Now, if you want to engage in politics to REMOVE a restriction, REMOVE a tax, REMOVE a program, REMOVE power from the Sword, then do as the Spirit and your conscience moves you.</p>
<p>But, be warned, of course, that those who are in charge of making, interpreting, and enforcing the laws are those that benefit the most by them. Employees of the Sword should not be expected to give up the power that they have worked so hard to attain.</p>
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