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	<title>Comments on: Christians: the vanguard of American anti-capitalist sentiment?</title>
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	<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/</link>
	<description>let's activate something</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 13:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: jc</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20696</link>
		<dc:creator>jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 20:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20696</guid>
		<description>My Mennonite pastor who is a white male in his 50's (maybe even early 60's) originally from the South, is getting bolder and bolder with what could be considered anti-capitalist sentiments in his sermons lately.

Of course it's not hard to come up with such teachings from the New Testament.

This is a rural congregation in Indiana too. And he's not being run out of church on a rail.

I don't know what all you can read into that, but I think it's interesting. This isn't some kind of "radical emergent church" at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Mennonite pastor who is a white male in his 50&#8217;s (maybe even early 60&#8217;s) originally from the South, is getting bolder and bolder with what could be considered anti-capitalist sentiments in his sermons lately.</p>
<p>Of course it&#8217;s not hard to come up with such teachings from the New Testament.</p>
<p>This is a rural congregation in Indiana too. And he&#8217;s not being run out of church on a rail.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what all you can read into that, but I think it&#8217;s interesting. This isn&#8217;t some kind of &#8220;radical emergent church&#8221; at all.</p>
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		<title>By: TimN</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20691</link>
		<dc:creator>TimN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 17:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20691</guid>
		<description>Tim B,

I just came across &lt;a href="http://www.arthurmag.com/2009/03/23/hack-money-hack-banking-rushkoff-on-the-economy/" rel="nofollow"&gt;this article by Douglas Rushkoff&lt;/a&gt; (thanks, Carl) that speaks directly to the difference between corporate capitalism as we have it today and an environment that fosters innovation:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Except in a few rare cases, corporate charters and centralized currency were never intended to promote commerce. They were intended to prevent locals and non-chartered entities from creating and exchanging value. They are not extensions of the free market, but efforts at extracting value from the free market. Corporate monopoly charters were extended to a king’s favorite companies in return for shares. Then, no one else was allowed to do business in that industry. Centralized currency forced businesses to run their revenue through the king’s coffers. Likewise, in its current form, centralized currency is more akin to a ponzi scheme of interest rates, each borrower paying up to the banker above him.

Both of these innovations—corporate charters and centralized currency—tend towards resource exploitation rather than innovation. They are extractive in nature, not productive. And, more importantly, these particular innovations cause wealth to end up being generated through speculation rather than creation. They cause scarcity, not abundance. Over time, it becomes easier to make money by having money than by doing anything. And this was the pure, stated intent of centralized currency and banking in the early Renaissance: to keep the wealthy wealthy, in the face of a rising merchant class.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim B,</p>
<p>I just came across <a href="http://www.arthurmag.com/2009/03/23/hack-money-hack-banking-rushkoff-on-the-economy/" onclick="javascript:pageTracker._trackPageview('/outbound/comment/http://www.arthurmag.com/2009/03/23/hack-money-hack-banking-rushkoff-on-the-economy/');" rel="nofollow">this article by Douglas Rushkoff</a> (thanks, Carl) that speaks directly to the difference between corporate capitalism as we have it today and an environment that fosters innovation:</p>
<blockquote><p>Except in a few rare cases, corporate charters and centralized currency were never intended to promote commerce. They were intended to prevent locals and non-chartered entities from creating and exchanging value. They are not extensions of the free market, but efforts at extracting value from the free market. Corporate monopoly charters were extended to a king’s favorite companies in return for shares. Then, no one else was allowed to do business in that industry. Centralized currency forced businesses to run their revenue through the king’s coffers. Likewise, in its current form, centralized currency is more akin to a ponzi scheme of interest rates, each borrower paying up to the banker above him.</p>
<p>Both of these innovations—corporate charters and centralized currency—tend towards resource exploitation rather than innovation. They are extractive in nature, not productive. And, more importantly, these particular innovations cause wealth to end up being generated through speculation rather than creation. They cause scarcity, not abundance. Over time, it becomes easier to make money by having money than by doing anything. And this was the pure, stated intent of centralized currency and banking in the early Renaissance: to keep the wealthy wealthy, in the face of a rising merchant class.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Tim Baer</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20681</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Baer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20681</guid>
		<description>I am in favor in favor of mostly free markets. I think capitalism is an open market for people to buy and sell their goods as they see fit. However, one must balance these principals with principals that take into account that capitalism doesn't answer all of our needs. If the Galapagos (sp?) Islands were not protected a free market would sit some god-awful chain hotels on 'em and ruin everything incredible about 'em. The market always exists to make money, nothing more.

Life is more than that. But freedom depends on the ability to buy and sell and own as we see fit. Without balance, unrestrained consumerism or opppressive fairness takes hold. Balance, man, balance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in favor in favor of mostly free markets. I think capitalism is an open market for people to buy and sell their goods as they see fit. However, one must balance these principals with principals that take into account that capitalism doesn&#8217;t answer all of our needs. If the Galapagos (sp?) Islands were not protected a free market would sit some god-awful chain hotels on &#8216;em and ruin everything incredible about &#8216;em. The market always exists to make money, nothing more.</p>
<p>Life is more than that. But freedom depends on the ability to buy and sell and own as we see fit. Without balance, unrestrained consumerism or opppressive fairness takes hold. Balance, man, balance.</p>
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		<title>By: Zack</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20675</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 17:10:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20675</guid>
		<description>We need a new name for capitalism. That would do a lot to clarify things. 

People look at mechanisms like markets, competition, rewards for success and see a lot of good in them. But those mechanisms are not capitalism. Those mechanisms have existed in almost every kind of society. 

You have a capitalist system when most of the economy is controlled by a life-or-death game to "maximize capital." In a capitalist system that game will often dismantle or corrupt markets, eliminate competition and pervert rewards systems so that even people who are destroying the planet can win the biggest rewards. It even gets so chaotic sometimes that people who are destroying capital (instead of maximizing it) get the biggest rewards. 

Somasoul: my guess is that you're in favor of markets, competition and rewards. But that's not capitalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We need a new name for capitalism. That would do a lot to clarify things. </p>
<p>People look at mechanisms like markets, competition, rewards for success and see a lot of good in them. But those mechanisms are not capitalism. Those mechanisms have existed in almost every kind of society. </p>
<p>You have a capitalist system when most of the economy is controlled by a life-or-death game to &#8220;maximize capital.&#8221; In a capitalist system that game will often dismantle or corrupt markets, eliminate competition and pervert rewards systems so that even people who are destroying the planet can win the biggest rewards. It even gets so chaotic sometimes that people who are destroying capital (instead of maximizing it) get the biggest rewards. </p>
<p>Somasoul: my guess is that you&#8217;re in favor of markets, competition and rewards. But that&#8217;s not capitalism.</p>
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		<title>By: TimN</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20669</link>
		<dc:creator>TimN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20669</guid>
		<description>Yep somasoul, I know. I had you in mind when I wrote "I know not everyone who reads and comments hear is anti-capitalist by any means"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep somasoul, I know. I had you in mind when I wrote &#8220;I know not everyone who reads and comments hear is anti-capitalist by any means&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: somasoul</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20667</link>
		<dc:creator>somasoul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:31:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20667</guid>
		<description>I don't think capitalism is a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think capitalism is a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Wiebe-Johnson</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20651</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Wiebe-Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 01:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20651</guid>
		<description>I think there is a growing movement towards anti-capitalism, though it is pretty small. But I mean, mustard seeds are small and they grow like weeds. ...Anti-capitalist mustard-seed Kingdom? How could it be any other way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a growing movement towards anti-capitalism, though it is pretty small. But I mean, mustard seeds are small and they grow like weeds. &#8230;Anti-capitalist mustard-seed Kingdom? How could it be any other way?</p>
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		<title>By: SteveK</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20641</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20641</guid>
		<description>While there is strong anti-capitalist seniment in the New Testament, I think that Christians in general are far from embracing this.  Sure, there are the odd groups, as you mention, Tim, but even the most "radical" mainstream Christians, like Tony Campolo and Jim Wallis, are still pro-capitalism and pro-government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While there is strong anti-capitalist seniment in the New Testament, I think that Christians in general are far from embracing this.  Sure, there are the odd groups, as you mention, Tim, but even the most &#8220;radical&#8221; mainstream Christians, like Tony Campolo and Jim Wallis, are still pro-capitalism and pro-government.</p>
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		<title>By: Josiah Garber</title>
		<link>http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/2009/03/25/christians-the-vanguard-of-american-anti-capitalist-sentiment/#comment-20634</link>
		<dc:creator>Josiah Garber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://young.anabaptistradicals.org/?p=623#comment-20634</guid>
		<description>I hope all followers of Jesus are revolutionaries! :-)

Capitalism is not the system that this country has.  But I will join you in protesting our current system.  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope all followers of Jesus are revolutionaries! :-)</p>
<p>Capitalism is not the system that this country has.  But I will join you in protesting our current system.  :-)</p>
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