Comments on: Review of “Pink Smoke over the Vatican”

By: TimN

TimN — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:13:25 +0000

BRDewey,

Thanks for correcting my comments and painting a brief picture of Catholic faith in these two areas.

The thrust of that paragraph was to challenge some of the ways Protestant men might rush to distance themselves from the experience of the women in the documentary, but I can see how my inaccurate Protestant shorthand ended up just reinforcing those patterns. I apologize. My ignorance is showing.

At the end of your paragraph on church leadership, you say, “And that is precisely what is being debated within Catholicism itself.” Can you say more about the debate you are referring to?

By: BRDewey

BRDewey — Thu, 26 Jul 2012 20:27:57 +0000

Thanks for your article, Tim. As Tim B has pointed out, I think there are some general inaccuracies that need to be tended to. Still, I appreciate your review of the film. Fr. Roy is a dynamic follower of Jesus!

I’d like to offer my own clarification on two points, when you wrote, “I’m Anabaptist, and we don’t believe in the church hierarchy or that priests are a necessary bridge to reach God.” Well, the Catholic Catechism doesn’t teach those things either. Often times Reformationesque cliches don’t work because they aren’t true. As is the case here.

Catholics don’t “believe in church hierarchy,” they believe Jesus instituted the form and function of church leadership. Catholic teaching is about belief and obedience to the teaching of Jesus, as they see it and as it has been passed down in Sacred Scripture and Tradition. It is important to state that plainly. It is about obedience to Jesus. And that is precisely what is being debated within Catholicism itself.

Lastly, Catholics don’t teach that “priests are a necessary bridge to reach God.” More inaccurate Protestant theological shorthand. The Catechism clearly distinguishes the common priesthood (all baptized and confirmed Christians are priests) and the ministerial or hierarchical priesthood. The ministerial priesthood serves and builds up the community of faith (common priesthood). The distinction is important, but does not espouse what you say.

By: Tim B

Tim B — Tue, 24 Jul 2012 20:41:44 +0000

I guess the question for me would be: “If you fail to recognize basic tenets of the Catholic Church, are you even Catholic?” If a woman declares herself a Priest does she even comprehend Roman Catholic teachings? If I claim to be a member of MCUSA but openly support, say, capital punishment, the wars in the middle east, and horde excessive wealth, am I a part of the organization? You also mention that the Catholic Church does include LGBTQ folks, which is incorrect. The Catholic Church does in fact allow ordination regardless of sexual orientation. Many Catholic Priests, within their own circles, are openly gay and it has been joked about that without homosexuals the Church wouldn’t function at all. The only expectation is that they remain celibate, which, if you recall, is exactly the same standard by which heterosexual priests must live by.

By: TimN

TimN — Tue, 17 Jul 2012 22:01:08 +0000

Yeah, the movie touches on the concept of Apostolic Succession, which was pretty new to me. I take it that was part of what made the bishop’s ordaining women special was that it maintained the Apostolic Succession (in their view, not the Vatican’s) as opposed to someone just declaring themselves a priest (which one of the women interviewed did).

By: Tim B

Tim B — Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:28:26 +0000

You’re clearly a Mennonite talking about Catholicism. Unlike Mennonites, which form leadership from the church level up, Catholics form leadership from the Vatican down. Understanding how and why is essential in understanding all of Catholic Theology. If a Bishop ordains a woman, he’s not simply breaking a theological stance on female ordination, he’s breaking a long line of Apostolic Succession which is a major tenet of the Catholic Church.