I’m lifting a sub-thread from ST’s post inspirational lunch which has the potential for an interesting discussion of its own – we’ve certainly talked about sex before on YAR (check out sex outside of marriage, or is it really a sin? for all the talk about gayness you could care for.) Clearly sexuality is a central issue for all young people, and I think it’s one of the essential tasks for everyone, especially people in the typical YARer’s age range (thinking late teens to early thirties), to figure out how one’s sexual nature can be integrated & expressed in one’s life. But, getting ahead of myself, that already might be language that we’re not all comfortable with. So, here’s the conversation so far:
somasoul (starting in the middle of the post)
Society, whether black or white, seems to want:
The appearance of monetary wealth.
The Christian needs to look at these things and find the Godliness in what prompts these desires:
Instead of power; servanthood. (Is that a word? Who cares.)
Instead of sex; mature relationships.
Instead of the appearance of wealth (keeping up with the Joneses); Monetary stability……food in the storehouse you might say.
If you, if we, get our shi….stuff straight and keep it straight, if we do it as a whole, vast social change follows because we alter the fabric of cultural worldviews.
But if you crave power; political power to end racism; monetary power to keep corporations in check…….
If you want sex with a stable partner, not mature relationships…….
If you want to keep pace with Joneses even with organic free-trade goods…
You won’t change anything.
The world ain’t changed by more of the same; even in the name of the greater good.
Somasoul, I’m kind of curious as to how you fit sexuality into the picture of empty vs. life-giving culture. I’m not sure I get the sex vs. mature relationships dichotomy. In my experience, sexual liberation and living a free, open sexual life (yes, definitely in the context of mature relationships and loving others) is essential – maybe even key, in my case at least – to spiritual liberation, and to fully be in touch with one’s own creativity and the healing power one possesses. I, at least, experience my sexuality (not just speaking abstractly here – referring especially to “getting it on”) as an expression of creativity, spirituality, and self-giving. I think you might be getting more at the objectification of bodies/genders that happens in our society, sex disconnected from relationship, in which case you certainly have a point. Yet you categorize “sex” as if it necessarily includes such negativity. I personally think young Christians of all persuasions, radical or conservative, have been fed a lot of falsehoods about sexual life – that sex itself is intrinsically something selfish, rather than a good part of ourselves, intimately tied to all our creative powers, a potential for joyful sharing with others.
I definetly have a disconnect with you on the issue of sexual relationships and sexuality. I had to read your post twice to get a grasp with what you’re saying and after thinking about it all day I cannot come to terms with it.
Open sexual relationships outside of marriage are clearly not God’s intent. Nor are homosexual relationships. But, I digress, this post is about neither.
The lie is simple: sex with commitment is okay. As with all believeable lies the truth must be included. Commitment is good but……marriage is God’s will for most; celibacy the alternative. Sex outside of marriage was not appropiate in Judaism and was assumed included in statements like “Sexual Immorality”. In 1 Thess Paul tells us to be content with his own wife and not be lustful like a heathen.
Again, my post wasn’t even about that.
My post was simple, a Godly view of sex is the only thing that can disrupt the social norms of culture. Buying into the lie of pervasive or even temporary-long-term commitment sex with a partner justifies any type of sex outside Biblical principals.
“I, at least, experience my sexuality (not just speaking abstractly here – referring especially to “getting it on”) as an expression of creativity, spirituality, and self-giving.” (Does this “getting it on” is okay or vice versa?)
I have no idea what this means, especially as a Christian. The Bible doesn’t support the concept of “sexual liberation=spirituality” and such a concept is largely foreign to traditional or modern Christian thought.
And with all due respect; I tend to think that the classical Christian thinkers, Christian thought throughout history, and the pillars of Judaism and nearly all denominations of Christianity are right on this one. Call me crazy.
Song of Solomon 4:1-16 (NIV)
1 How beautiful you are, my darling!
Oh, how beautiful!
Your eyes behind your veil are doves.
Your hair is like a flock of goats
descending from Mount Gilead.
2 Your teeth are like a flock of sheep just shorn,
coming up from the washing.
Each has its twin;
not one of them is alone.
3 Your lips are like a scarlet ribbon;
your mouth is lovely.
Your temples behind your veil
are like the halves of a pomegranate.
4 Your neck is like the tower of David,
built with elegance ;
on it hang a thousand shields,
all of them shields of warriors.
5 Your two breasts are like two fawns,
like twin fawns of a gazelle
that browse among the lilies.
6 Until the day breaks
and the shadows flee,
I will go to the mountain of myrrh
and to the hill of incense.
7 All beautiful you are, my darling;
there is no flaw in you.
8 Come with me from Lebanon, my bride,
come with me from Lebanon.
Descend from the crest of Amana,
from the top of Senir, the summit of Hermon,
from the lions’ dens
and the mountain haunts of the leopards.
9 You have stolen my heart, my sister, my bride;
you have stolen my heart
with one glance of your eyes,
with one jewel of your necklace.
10 How delightful is your love, my sister, my bride!
How much more pleasing is your love than wine,
and the fragrance of your perfume than any spice!
11 Your lips drop sweetness as the honeycomb, my bride;
milk and honey are under your tongue.
The fragrance of your garments is like that of Lebanon.
12 You are a garden locked up, my sister, my bride;
you are a spring enclosed, a sealed fountain.
13 Your plants are an orchard of pomegranates
with choice fruits,
with henna and nard,
14 nard and saffron,
calamus and cinnamon,
with every kind of incense tree,
with myrrh and aloes
and all the finest spices.
15 You are a garden fountain,
a well of flowing water
streaming down from Lebanon.
16 Awake, north wind,
and come, south wind!
Blow on my garden,
that its fragrance may spread abroad.
Let my lover come into his garden
and taste its choice fruits.